Rebuild from Depression Blog

You did a great job with this, exceptional presentation and writing.

I love it! Real professionals aren't they? The funny thing is, when our WAP groups here go to Annapolis & DC and serve them a buffet of farm fresh food including raw dairy....they sure don't push back from the table and spit saying, "bluck, that taste like poop!" (a more graphic word would make the pt better but I'm a girl that tries not to have a dirty mouth!) Kinda hypocritical! But hey, it's free food and it seems as if the politicians in our govt take anything that's free.

I'm not sure why were such a threat....except it comes back to the mighty $$$$$!!!

Interesting....I think that the whole dismissal type response is common when it comes to many of the choices folks make that are outside of the mainstream.

It's really easy to call others "stupid" or "selfish" or any other number of adjectives, but not the least bit productive - and it's certainly not going to convince others of your viewpoint!

I haven't had raw milk (yet), but have many friends who use it and claim that the flavor is so much better than the stuff you can buy in stores - even organic milk. Their raves have me wanting to research more about it and have my family try some - yes, just on flavor alone!

I'm sorry you were treated like that but am so proud of you for not being offended. I think it would be difficult to stand in front of any group that's heckling!

Off to read at some of your links... :D

I should clarify that the lion's share of the people there were very professional. Our lunch discussion, for instance, was great. We probably all learned a lot about other viewpoints.

There are obviously extreme opinions on both sides. Some just have difficulty discussing other people's lifestyle choices. Ironically, that was part of the point of my presentation. How helpful is it, for instance, to say that consuming raw milk is like playing Russian roulette with your health? The last guy who played Russian roulette had a one-in-six chance of death. With all of the raw milk I've consumed in my life, I'm really living on borrowed time apparently. It's also an exaggeration to say that raw milk is "uniquely safe" as is the WAPF argument. Neither allows consumers to make an informed decision.

Raw milk tastes great and it's healthy unless it's contaminated. If you can't risk the possibility of contamination, you should probably consume something else. It's hard to know what the likelihood is. Wouldn't it be great if there were a bit of focus on that?

Amanda

"Add fecal matter to pasteurized milk"==Now I have heard everything!! I suppose they were trying to say raw milk tastes like sh_t. Well, I have news for those Vets--it doesn't! And, it is the best tasting milk me and my family have ever enjoyed!

And they laughed cuz they think we are ignorant!! I think it is the other way around. Adding fecal matter to pasteurized milk won't help it taste any better, I'm afraid. Its just the pits!

Hi Amanda,

The information you gathered from your survey is a first of its kind. I’m looking forward to an interesting discussion on this blog and others once you post the results. You did a fantastic job presenting and if the format had allowed for about an hour discussion after your presentation I think some interesting dynamics would have happened.

In defense to the veterinarians and public health professionals who attended this conference, they have a strong set of belief systems about raw milk based on 100 years of research. I can’t remember who made the statement about pasteurization as a success story for eliminating disease. They are very proud of the history behind pasteurization and the number of lives it has saved. Someone threw out a figure of 30%; that’s how many people became ill from raw milk prior to pasteurization. The fear is that if raw milk was available to all that would like to drink it, we’d have that 30% figure back. People in the raw milk community have to respect that this fear is real and that it motivates the decisions made at state and federal levels on this topic.

Apply the above belief system to the finding that many people choose to drink raw milk because it tastes better. I think there was a strong reaction because this is what was going on in their heads, “You’ve got to be kidding me! You’d take the risk of pathogens because the milk tastes better!” I think they were shocked at this finding. I don’t think they were laughing at you. I think they were laughing at the statement.

I think there is also room in the discussion for consumers who are interested in purchasing raw milk from cows who are grass fed (because they want clean milk) and then can pasteurize it at home. This can be another “choice”. The choices don’t have to be raw milk vs. factory farmed milk. I know the WAPF supporters go crazy over this thought because they believe it defeats the purpose; the milk is no longer healthy once it has been pasteurized.

The choice seem so simple to me because of what my son experienced. Buy clean milk from a small family farm where the cows are raised like cows, grass fed and roam the pastures. Once the milk is brought home, then pasteurize it. To supplement the beneficial bacteria that is lost during the heating process, make yogurt and kefir.

It was great meeting you.

Mary

Hi Mary. It was great meeting you too. Another option for small farmers is to purchase a small pasteurizer that they use on site. There are fairly inexpensive ones that would be feasible. It is a great option for a small boutique operation that wanted to sell pasteurized milk, or perhaps for a farmer that wants to sell both.

I can see avoiding raw milk if flavor is the only reason for consuming it. It does seem a little self-indulgent to choose a food simply for appeal. If that was the driving factor in my diet I would eat a hamburger and fries just about every day here at one of the local cowboy restaurants. I am sure I would weigh at least 400 pounds as well.

Amanda

Hi Kimberly. I suppose there are batches that taste pretty bad with high levels of spoiling organisms. The cow's diet affects it too. But, for the most part, the flavor is superior in my opinion. Mary makes a good point though that flavor is a trivial reason to consume a product that could make you ill. The top reasons consumers gave for consuming it related to beneficial bacteria.

I also think it is important to mention that anyone interested in becoming a raw dairy farmer, but has no history in animal husbandry needs to be educated first. How does a person become educated in this area if they were not raised on a farm? Should the state provide education where cow-shares are legal? Should WAPF provide education?

It sounds romantic to move the country and buy a few cows to milk, but there is a lot more information that is needed than just good intentions. Providing only grass to cows for nutrition works if you have enough grass. Pasture fed does not mean a patch of grass.

The pictures we viewed at lunch is the perfect example of what “not to do” if you run a black market cow-share program. The cows were fed only grass, but the problem was there wasn’t enough grass. The cows looked like starving children in Africa. They were emaciated It is not a good sign if you can count all the ribs on the cow. This family also didn’t have a clue about sanitation—scary! This farm made the case as to why raw milk regulation is imperative.

“Know your farmer” is a mantra the raw milk movement uses for self regulation. Here’s the logic, if you know your farmer, visit the farm, there is trust automatically built into this system. Many families participated in the cow-share program I mentioned above, but obviously noone knew what to look for. They trusted this family farming operation and people became seriously ill.

In response to Mary's comment about the pictures of a raw dairy operation, we did see some pictures of unhealthy cows from at least two farms that were involved in outbreaks at one point or another. It appears that there are some people who are starting operations who really don't have a background in animal husbandry and probably should seek out more guidance as they begin to care for animals. Even a family cow needs a certain amount of attention and expertise. If we go the homesteading route, we need to be sure to educate ourselves about the animals we keep. I am sure that most people do this but the pictures were a reminder to me that probably not everyone does educate themselves as much as is necessary even though their intentions may be very good.

I know that here on our property sometimes are chickens get short-changed in their care. From the looks of the eggs on my counter top (covered with manure), I need to clean their house and add new bedding. Not everyone would know why the eggs would be so dirty and wouldn't necessarily know how to reduce contamination of the egg shell and they might sell them anyway. (We consume all of our own eggs.)

Amanda

Hello Mary and Amanda,

What farm was this that you are talking about where the cow shares were going on with the poor sanitation?

That wouldn't do any good. They are out of business anyway.

I totally agree with pampered mom that the whole dismissal type response is common when it comes to many of the choices folks make that are outside of the mainstream.